GREENVILLE, S.C. -- This week is a very special one on tour. Not the PGA Tour, but the Web.com Tour.
It's the first of four tournaments where lasers (electronic distance measuring devices, but without the "slope" feature) are being allowed during the tournament proper. I'm also playing in the BMW Charity Pro-Am. (Pray for Adam Schenk.)
It's very different caddying on the Web.com Tour. I would know. It's where I started. From travel to money to caddie treatment ... you're going to learn some things. So thanks to all the caddies for volunteering for this, and with any luck, I'll get to do a few more versions like this week's Web.com Tour Caddie Confidential. Enjoy!
Collins: First official round is in the books. Let's talk about using the lasers. First, did you still use the slope during the practice rounds to make notes?
Caddie: The practice rounds, I didn't do anything different than I normally would do. I used the laser when I did my work. Made sure I had all the ups and downs written in my yardage books, nothing different ... it was all the exact same preparation.
Collins: So what changed when it counted on Thursday?
Caddie: ... I didn't use a laser today. I did all the numbers like I usually did and then he shot it, which probably took 20 seconds off of his [pre-shot routine], and if our numbers matched, which they always did, he would say, "139?" I would say, "Yes, 139." And we went. So it probably took 20 seconds off his preparation.
Collins: Anything bad about using the laser?
Caddie: I don't think there was anything that I would say was bad about it.
Collins: Can you see a "downside" to using them in the future on the PGA Tour?
Caddie: A downside is, and I truly feel strongly about this, especially on the Web.com Tour, [that] using a laser takes the advantage of having a good caddie who does a lot of hard work out of the equation.
Collins: Why?
Caddie: Because you got caddies out here that might be lazy or might give bad numbers. If your pro is able to just shoot the flag, then he doesn't need to necessarily rely on a "good caddie." Does that make sense?
Collins: Big time.
Caddie: ... I think a lot of the PGA Tour players have said the same thing, that having a good caddie on tour is a big advantage. The Web.com Tour is obviously a lot different than the PGA Tour. The majority of the PGA Tour caddies are good caddies. That's why they're out there. You got some of us caddies looking for that new, hot young guy that have made our way back down here to the Web and we want to be appreciated for our experience and our hard work. If you have "Johnny High School" out there caddying and all the pro has to do is shoot the flag [with the laser], then it kinda takes us out of the picture a little bit. Not completely, but you know what I'm saying.
Collins: Yeah. So let me make sure I'm getting this right: Do you think the tour should allow lasers during tournament play? Caddie: ... I do think that in pro-am situations like Pebble and Bob Hope, lasers should be [allowed] for the amateurs 'cause that'll speed up play for sure. But I think no for the professionals for sure. Across the board, no.
Collins: Wow. So if it was up to you, no lasers for the pros in tournaments?
Caddie: I would say no lasers. Even though the caddies on the PGA Tour, for the most part, are pretty good. You still got a handful of guys that it's gonna take that advantage away from.
Collins: It takes away the chance for mistakes.
Caddie: Exactly! [It takes away] the human element, which is golf and caddies and yardage books ... A player is paying his caddie quite a bit of money nowadays, and the caddie should work hard to deserve that money. Like I said, that should be an advantage compared to just having "Johnny High School" out there carrying the bag. It's one guy versus a two-person team.
Collins: There's a huge difference in money between the PGA Tour and Web.com Tour. What's it like traveling as caddie on this tour?
Caddie: That's right. You never had to sweat down here, did ya?
Collins: Yes, I did! I was down there for a couple years with Chris Couch. It's where I got my only win!
Caddie: Oh man. I didn't know that. (I hear a new respect in his voice.) The only reason, I think, for a caddie to be on this tour ... it's really the only avenue for a player to get to the PGA Tour and a caddie to get to the PGA Tour. I've been back and forth for (redacted) years ... you can't make any money down here. It's hard to break even, but you've got to look into the future and think, "Wow, I could get that next ... whoever might have graduated in the last five years." Get up there and have a five- or 10-year run with 'em and do what you really wanna do.
Collins: That's a great vision, but some players don't take the caddie with them to the PGA Tour when they move up.
Caddie: Yeah, a lot of times they don't if they've got a young caddie down here. A lot of times they won't take 'em because there's 156 spots every week on the PGA Tour and (thinks for a second) there's gotta be 180 qualified caddies that are experienced and able to work. So the young [caddies], when their player graduates, they generally don't make it very long up there. You get agents involved and you get experienced caddies who are up there without a job. Sooner or later those players are gonna want that experienced caddie.
Collins: Caddying can be cutthroat at times.
Caddie: Totally cutthroat. It's such a big difference in money that, it's sad to say, but there's a lot of backstabbing that goes on out there on the PGA Tour. Guys trying to weed out the young guys ... but how am I going to be an experienced caddie if you don't let me work all these tournaments?
Collins: Since you've been on both tours, how do the courses compare from the Web.com to the PGA Tour?
Caddie: The courses, per se, are easy, but that's the Web.com Tour. We don't play hard golf courses, which is sad because it doesn't prepare the player for playing when he graduates. He's not prepared for playing PGA Tour-quality golf courses.
Collins: Was wondering about that.
Caddie: Yeah, we're shooting 24 to 30 under every week. You get out on the PGA Tour and you've got rough. You've got firm greens. You've got long golf courses, and this tour doesn't prepare you for that ... that's why 25 of the 50 who graduate end up back here the next year.
Collins: Do you think 50 tour cards (for graduating from the Web.com Tour to the PGA Tour) is too much?
Caddie: Absolutely. Fifty is too much and 125 is too much on the PGA Tour.
Collins: What should it be?
Caddie: Should go down to 100 on the PGA Tour ... and then if you go 25 off this tour and 25 conditional. I just think there's way too many cards on the PGA Tour. You get guy who finish [on the PGA Tour] in the 126-150 category that get in six tournaments -- for the year! What kind of status is that?
Collins: If you were taking a rookie up to the PGA Tour next year, what would be the first thing you'd want to teach him?
Caddie: Don't get starstruck. You're as good as these guys. Just because you've seen them on TV, just because they've won tournaments, play golf like it's a mini-tour event. Don't do anything different. Don't start going to the tour trailers and getting all new equipment, asking what the newest, hottest thing is. Play golf, like you play golf.
Collins: What's the hardest part of caddying on the Web.com Tour?
Caddie: The hardest part is trying to travel as cheap as you can travel, which may mean driving a lot more than you would on the PGA Tour. I put 20,000 miles on my car last year driving on this tour. You're looking at some 13-, 14-hour drives to get to the next event. Just trying to save that $400-$500 plane [ticket]. And then rent a car for another $300. We usually travel in [small groups]. There's a lot of times that we'll put three guys in one hotel room.
Collins: We used to do four. Two beds, a roll away, and whoever's player played the worst ...
Caddie: Yep! High man hits the rug! (Laughing)
Collins: It's just because of the money. There is none out here, comparatively. What would a caddie make for a 10th-place finish out here?
Caddie: Maybe $1,000-$1,200 plus his salary. So he may walk away with two grand. But then he's spending, every week is different, but around $800-$900. The best thing to try to possibly do on this tour is break even and hope your player graduates. And then you have a chance the following year to hit the bank.
Collins: How many caddies on this tour are married with kids?
Caddie: (guffaws) Oh, not many ... I don't know how they could possibly do it. A really good buddy of mine is married and has two kids. He's won a couple times on the PGA Tour, but he's back down here with a young kid, doing the same thing I'm doing. But he's lucky enough that his wife makes a decent salary at her job.
Collins: And she's cool with him still chasing it?
Caddie: She's cool with him still chasing it because he brought in $250k one year, so she knows the potential.
Collins: How is the caddie treatment on this tour?
Caddie: There is no treatment. We have registration and that's it.
Collins: So there's no caddie area where they give you food or if there's a bad thunderstorm?
Caddie: Very rarely do we get anything other than a shelter ... They usually just shove us in a cart barn or something if there's bad weather. We're definitely third-class citizens out here on this tour. It's kinda the way it was 15 years ago on the PGA Tour. It just hasn't worked its way down here yet.
Collins: Do you think it ever will?
Caddie: I mean, I'm sure it's gonna have to. You saw how much better it's gotten on the PGA Tour so ...
Collins: Are there any tournaments that are really good to the caddies?
Caddie: Really good to caddies? No ... absolutely none. And you gotta think about that in the terms of the tournaments! Their budgets are so limited. They're trying to give as much purse as they can, they can't go spending $15,000 on lunches for the caddies during the week. We totally understand that -- I've never had a problem with it. We've got some caddies that complain about it, but for the most part ... we understand. We got no problem going to Subway, ordering a $5 sub, coming back and meeting our player at the range. It's not that big of a deal.