There was a good result in the Champions League on Tuesday night for Manchester United -- it was just in a game they had no part in ... Valencia's draw with Young Boys in Switzerland means United will still fancy their chances of qualifying from Group H despite a 1-0 defeat to Juventus at Old Trafford.
If the Italian champions, with Cristiano Ronaldo in their ranks, are considered genuine contenders for this competition it was a night that showed how far away United are from being mentioned in the same conversation. The last two times these two teams have met in the Champions League -- in 1999 and 2003 -- one has gone on to reach the final. On this evidence, it is far more likely that Juventus keep the streak alive.
Positives
United were better in the second half, just as they were against Newcastle and Chelsea, but Juventus always seemed to have them at arm's length. Victor Lindelof at centre-back was a positive. The Swede had a difficult first season at Old Trafford but is starting to look more comfortable, especially in the Champions League.
Negatives
Another slow start. It was United's 13th game of the season and the sixth time they have conceded the first goal. Stirring fightbacks against Newcastle and Chelsea were encouraging but Juventus are a better team. Jose Mourinho has seemed at a loss to explain why his team keeping starting so slowly but he needs to find out quickly.
Manager rating out of 10
6 -- Mourinho picked an unchanged team for the first time since December and got a similar performance to the one he saw at Stamford Bridge. The first half was disappointing but they looked better after the break. He didn't make a substitution, despite chasing the game, but that was probably down to a lack of attacking options on the bench with Alexis Sanchez sidelined. He ended the game holding up three fingers in response to taunts from Juventus fans to remind them of his treble with Inter in 2010.
Player ratings (1-10; 10 = best. Players introduced after 70 minutes get no rating)
GK David De Gea, 7 -- Made a good save from Blaise Matuidi in the first half and made an even better one from Ronaldo after half-time when it looked like his shot was going to flash into the top corner.
DF Ashley Young, 7 -- Asked to look after Ronaldo with the Portuguese forward starting in the left channel. The fact Ronaldo's best moments came when he switched to the right is a credit to the 33-year-old.
DF Luke Shaw, 6 -- Most of Juventus' best stuff came down United's left but it wasn't all Shaw's fault. He was pulled around by Joao Cancelo and Juan Cuadrado but didn't get much help from Anthony Martial.
DF Chris Smalling, 6 -- Made a good challenge on Cuadrado at the near post from Ronaldo's cross and was unlucky to see Paulo Dybala tuck away the rebound.
DF Victor Lindelof, 8 -- It was a disappointing night for United but Lindelof's performance was a positive. Happy to organise the rest of the defence around him, he dealt well when tested for pace.
MF Nemanja Matic, 5 -- He gave the ball away too often but it didn't help that he was often outnumbered three vs. one in the centre of midfield. Could also have been closer to Dybala before the Argentine tapped in Juventus' opener.
MF Paul Pogba, 6 -- The Juventus fans were disappointed to see Pogba go when he returned to United in 2016 but you wonder how many of those who travelled to Old Trafford would want him back at the expense of Miralem Pjanic, the man who replaced the Frenchman in Turin. Hit the post with a good effort but Pjanic had the better game.
MF Juan Mata, 6 -- Just like against Chelsea, United were better when they got the Spaniard on the ball in between Juventus' defence and midfield. It didn't happen very often in the first half but he was more influential in the second.
FW Anthony Martial, 5 -- He had a fantastic second half against Chelsea but struggled here. Didn't do a lot going forward and didn't give Shaw much protection defensively. Cancelo being pushed so far forward gave him a lot of problems.
FW Marcus Rashford, 5 -- In front of the watching Gareth Southgate, the 20-year-old put a shift in on the right but was unable to contribute much going forward. Rarely troubled Alex Sandro.
FW Romelu Lukaku, 5 -- The Belgian has now gone eight games without a goal, his longest barren run since signing for United. It's not that Lukaku is missing chances, it's that he's not getting any. That's a problem for him and the team in general.
Substitutes
N/A